#morality #philosophy #religion

Morality is subjective then you can't really say that something like murder is wrong because you don't have an objective moral framework to base it off of is just your preference. And when you say that something is wrong, that's appealing to an objective standard. That's not necessarily true. While it is true that I don't have an objective moral framework to base it off of, I can still say that something like murder is wrong and it doesn't need to appeal to an objective moral standard. When I say murder is wrong, that's just a subjective expression and I'm obviously the subject that's expressing it. Well, yeah, but if morality is subjective, then it's just a matter of personal preference. And why should I care about your preference about murder being wrong? If both of our perspectives are equally subjective, then one isn't more true than the other. Well, it isn't really about a should or a shouldn't. It's just that you either will care about my perspective or you won't. And morality is ultimately an attempt to influence particular outcomes. So when I express my perspective that murder is wrong, that's an attempt to influence a particular outcome that results in no murder. It's not that you should or shouldn't care about my perspective. It's just that I can't possibly know beforehand that you're going to care or not. I just have to express it and find out and do my best to persuade you to see it the way that I see it. And this is how inter-subjective communication works. Yeah, but even if you persuaded me to see it the way that you see it, it would still just be a subjective perception. It wouldn't really be absolutely true that it's objectively wrong if subjective morality is all we have. But with my belief system as a Christian, God gives us objective morality. Morality is grounded in God's being. So again, it's true that it wouldn't be an objective judgment that is wrong because it's subjective morality. And subjective morality obviously isn't objective morality. So yes, it would be a subjective judgment that we happen to agree upon. And that's all we have to work with in reality. It doesn't make sense for morality to be objective in the first place because objectivity is just mind independent. It doesn't make any sense to say that morality exists independently of a mind. And I would argue that even in your belief system as a Christian, you still don't have objective morality. Because if God is both a personal agent and the ground of being, then morality cannot stand independently if God's being. So that renders it as inherently subjective. And you end up just using the word objective incorrectly in order to make your claim which makes it a moot point anyways. Yeah, but morality is grounded in God's being. So it's unchanging. It's not just an arbitrary preference that someone is making. It doesn't really matter if it's unchanging or not because that's not the qualifier for objectivity. Objectivity is strictly mind independent. Whether or not it changes doesn't matter. If it's grounded in God's being, then it's inherently subjective whether there's change or no change.